simolakers 81 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Anche senza i fatti basta vedere le prestazioni... Oggi sarebbe primo con 5' su froome, che di sicuro non è un "santo". Beh stai paragonando due universi paralleli. Io dicevo che ne prendeva parecchio per essere "allora". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EneaKB24 430 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Era per far capire quanto fosse bravo il buon pantani.... Quello non lo posso sapere, ma dubito andasse così forte prendendone poca, l'ematocrito è soggettivo, ma il solo fatto che non ti prendevano se avevi valori naturalmente elevati... Beh dice molto su come andassero le cose all'EPOca. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kei-Head 173 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Kei-head ci sono testimonianze dello stesso Forconi e altri del giro. http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2014/10/23/marco-pantani-positivo-epo-gia-giro-98-fu-eliminato-compagno-forconi/1167002/ @Heze Pantani ha preso Epo dal 94 al 99 praticamente sempre e a livelli incredibili anche per i professionisti; dopo il primo o secondo incidente contro un' auto, non ricordo, gli trovarono all'ospedale 60 di ematocrito eh. Ora io l'ho amato come pochi, ma i fatti son fatti. Grazie mille per l'articolo. A questo punto devo dedurre che tutti coloro che hanno detto che in seguito all'autopsia di Pantani non si sono trovati in nessun modo tessuti emopoietici alterati a causa di uno smodato uso di Epo, hanno riempito televisioni e giornali di stronzate.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kei-Head 173 Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Wiki in inglese chiarisce gran parte della questione After being disqualified at the 1999 Giro d'Italia for an hematocrit reading of 52 percent, above the 50-percent upper limit set by UCI, Pantani faced persistent allegations of doping throughout the rest of his career.[37] The trial for the 1999 Giro d'Italia irregular blood values began in April 2003 and Pantani was eventually acquitted because doping was not considered a crime by the law at that time.[11] In early June 1999, a few days after Pantani was expelled from the 1999 Giro d'Italia, a court condemned the town of Turin to compensate him for an accident in the 1995 edition of the Milano–Torino, which forced Pantani to undergo several surgeries and a long recovery to get back on his bike.[38] A few days later, Italian prosecutor Raffaele Guariniello accused Pantani of a "sporting offence" after he discovered, by looking through trial and medical records, that Pantani's hematocrit after the accident was over 60 percent.[39][40][41] Although the results didn't surface until 1999, in early 1997 UCI had decided to implement blood testing, imposing a 50-percent upper limit for hematocrit. A rider with a value above 50 percent was given a compulsory two-week suspension. The test was designated as a "health test" although it was administered on suspicion that the athlete was using the banned blood-boosting drug, EPO.[42][43] During the proceeding, investigators tried to find a reason for Pantani's high hematocrit values, including an hematocrit value of 57.6% recorded on 1 May 1995, at a hospital after he had an accident while training, an investigation in which the doctor pointed out the presence of abnormal hematological values. Upon Guariniello's request to see Pantani's medical record after his accident at the 1997 Giro d'Italia, it was revealed that the blood test results had disappeared from the folder at the hospital and the police did not rule out "intentional removal".[44][45][46] Pantani was eventually indicted on a so-called “fraud in sport”, but his lawyers argued that Pantani's hematocrit may have been elevated by a combination of training at high altitude in September, suffering from dehydration during the race, trauma of his accident and amargin of error for the sampling method.[41] The original case started in Turin, but was moved to Forlì upon Pantani's lawyers' requests.[47] Although he initially received a three-month suspended sentence,[48] Pantani's lawyers appealed and the case was dismissed in late 2001 because the law itself had been passed only in 1999.[49][50] In 1999, the Italian newspaper la Repubblica published information that linked Marco Pantani to an investigation on the use of performance-enhancing substances in Italian sports. According to the information released by the newspaper, Francesco Conconi administered EPO to Italian athletes from 1993 to 1998, including Pantani and other cyclists of Carrera.[51][52] It was revealed that Pantani's name appeared on a file marked "Dblab", seized from Conconi's Biomedical Research Institute at Ferrara, which detailed athlete's hematocrit levels between 1993 and 1995. In 1994, his haematocrit values fluctuated from 40.7% on 16 March, early in the season, to 54.55% on 23 May, during the first stages of the Giro d'Italia. His values reached 58% on 8 June, after winning two stages of the race, and were 57.4% on 27 July, after the Tour de France. In March 1995, his hematocrit values had dropped to 45%, but they reached 56% in July during the Tour de France, where he won two stages; and over 60% in October, after the accident in the Milano–Torino.[53][54][55] In 2004, Conconi and his two assistants were acquitted by judge Franca Oliva because the crimes were not deemed illegal at the time although they were deemed "morally guilty" of promoting doping.[56][57] During the 2001 Giro d'Italia, a syringe containing traces of insulin was found in Pantani's room. Pantani claimed that the insulin had been planted and that he did not stay in the room that night.[58] In 2002, he was banned for eight months by the Italian Cycling Federation, but he later won an appeal due to an absence of proof.[32][59] In 2006, two years after his death, Pantani was linked to the Operación Puerto doping case. According to documentation released by Spanish radio network Cadena SER, Pantani was allegedly given the code name "PTNI" by Eufemiano Fuentes, with a detailed program in 2003, his last season, including EPO, growth hormone, Insulin, Levothroidand IGF-1.[60] Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera indicated that he was administered over 40,000 units of EPO, seven doses of growth hormone, thirty doses of anabolic steroids and four doses of hormones used to treat menopause.[61] In 2006 Jesús Manzano, a Spanish professional road racing cyclist whose statements led the Guardia Civil to conduct the Operación Puerto investigation, disclosed in an interview with French television channel France 3 that Pantani was a client of Eufemiano Fuentes.[62] On the penultimate stage of 1998 Giro d'Italia, Pantani's teammate Riccardo Forconi was expelled from the race for an haematocrit value above 50 percent. Ivano Fanini, the manager of Amore & Vita-Giubileo 2000-Beretta, suggested during the early stages of 1999 Giro d'Italia that Pantani and Forconi had exchanged their blood samples in order to avoid Pantani's disqualification. According to Fanini, Forconi's haematocrit value the previous day was only 47 percent.[63] In 2008 Fanini further claimed that Forconi had received a house for the exchange but Forconi refuted these claims.[64][65] Matt Rendell's biography of Pantani suggests Pantani used recombinant erythropoietin (rEPO) throughout his professional career. It alleges that seasonal hematocrit levels from several sources showed variations which exceeded those possible naturally, and that Pantani's main victories were probably won also thanks to blood hematocrit levels which could have been up to 60%.[66] A French senate report into doping released in July 2013 confirmed that Pantani had tested positive for EPO during retroactive testing of samples from the 1998 Tour de France conducted in 2004.[67] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kei-Head 173 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Io ero troppo piccolo per vivere le emozioni che regalava in diretta, ma sono cresciuto con il suo mito. Avevo 3 anni quando nel 98 vinceva giro e tour e 5 quando dava le famosissime stilettate ad Armstrong, ricordo però che quei pomeriggi a casa mia lo si seguiva ferventemente e mi spaventavo quando si iniziava ad esultare e gioire "perché il pirata aveva buttato via la bandana ed era pronto ad attaccare"; poi mi spiegavano che era una cosa bella e dovevo esultare anche io. Sono quindi cresciuto idolatrandolo ed ho amato follemente il ciclismo, quindi per anni, una volta cresciuto, ho cercato informazioni su di lui: avevo il sentore che quell'epoca fosse appunto marcia, ma non mi spiego come mai televisioni e giornali non abbiano fatto luce definitivamente su ciò che accadesse allora. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EneaKB24 430 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 eh vuoi mettere "cancellare" il mito pantani dalla gente, ti rende impopolare . io ero praticamente nella tua situazione, solo che a me dicevano già all'epoca che erano dopati quindi l'alone di magia scomparve subito. comunque epo o no resta un fenomeno, come lo era armstrong, ullrich, indurain prima e tutti gli altri, lui però era uno scalatore e poteva permettersi azioni impossibili anche per gli altri. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EneaKB24 430 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Intanto Alberto da dei perdenti ai movistar, fantastico. Comunque oggi dovrebbe essere una debacle x lui, ha male x la caduta. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EneaKB24 430 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Eccolo il perdente... Si che quintana gli ha detto di andare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kei-Head 173 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Ti dà sempre un motivo per vedere le tappe! Grande Alberto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shooter 582 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 lo raccolgono col cucchiaino ma fa niente, solo applausi. Movistar imbarazzante, da ritirare la licenza Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kei-Head 173 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Va lo squalo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EneaKB24 430 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Regia sempre peggio Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kei-Head 173 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 REGIA FRANCESE MERDA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kei-Head 173 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Bene Enea xD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheGoods 2,461 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Valverde ignobile. Va a chiudere sul primo tentativo di Nibali per rimanere piantato 500 metri dopo. Godrei se saltasse completamente. Comunque Nibali DOVEVA andare dietro ad Alberto. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shooter 582 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 ma Thomas è iron man? ma basta, levati dal cazzo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nigma Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Per me conta di riprenderlo in discesa. Però sono d'accordo Good. Ragazzi, vi prego, continuate così che dall'ufficio mi state facendo una cronaca migliore di Pancani, Martinello e Gazzetta. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D-GenerationLakers 7,593 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 comunque vada, Condator è l'unico ad avere realmente i cojones nel gruppo dei migliori... godrei se salisse sul podio a Parigi. Nibali dovrebbe spiegare perchè ha atteso tanto.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nigma Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Amo Alberto per questo, primo od ultimo, fresco o stanco, in forma o infortunato, appena la strada sale lui va. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kei-Head 173 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 ...Nibali che allunga in discesa e Quintana in prima linea a cercare di riprenderlo...ma vabbe che odio!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heze 1,594 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Valverde ignobile. Va a chiudere sul primo tentativo di Nibali per rimanere piantato 500 metri dopo. Godrei se saltasse completamente. Comunque Nibali DOVEVA andare dietro ad Alberto. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheGoods 2,461 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Valverde rientra in discesa. Ma resta ignobile. Sta correndo esclusivamente per se stesso. Quando Quintana gli ha chiesto di ATTACCARE assieme a Contador, ha fatto finta di nulla. Poi per CHIUDERE su Nibali, è stato il primo a partire. E si è piantato al secondo scatto. Paraculo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heze 1,594 Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 ...Nibali che allunga in discesa e Quintana in prima linea a cercare di riprenderlo...ma vabbe che odio!!! Solo odio per la Movistar. Sono scandalosi. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D-GenerationLakers 7,593 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 ...Nibali che allunga in discesa e Quintana in prima linea a cercare di riprenderlo...ma vabbe che odio!!! La cosa fantastica è che sia l'uno che l'altro stanno correndo come se mancassero ancora 2 settimane e fossero a pochi secondi da Froome con tutto ancora in ballo. Un inspiegabile atteggiamento attendista. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EneaKB24 430 Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 L'ordine è chiaro, blindare secondo e terzo posto... Spero salti Valverde sul muro finale. Certo che se nibali andava con Alberto potevano fare il vuoto anche in discesa. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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